How to Stay Vegan Strong with Bill Muir




Bill Muir is a former Army combat veteran, martial artist, published author, registered nurse, musician AND he's been vegan since 1992. Bill is a role model for anyone wondering how to piece together all the facets of their identities and specifically for men who want to rewrite the masculinity checklist. Bill and Carly dive into veganism, the military, politics, religion -they get into it ALL!

A special shoutout to Bill for being so kind and patient through the numerous technical issues we encountered to get this episode recorded. This interview is actually two parts over two days! In the beginning, you will hear a few fuzzy parts but hopefully, you can understand everything throughout the interview!


Please note, this episode has been transcribed by a computer, expect some typos!


Carly Puch

Welcome back to another episode of Consciously Clueless. I'm your host, Carly, and I'll be your guide on this journey, consciousness to looseness and back around again. Today on the podcast, I have the pleasure of talking to Bill. Bill is a former Army combat veteran martial artist, a registered nurse, musician. He is a role model for anyone who's trying to learn acids and identities together. And he's also a lovely human stuck with it throughout the technology issues. Here's some fuzziness around but I hope you enjoy it. Here we go. Alright, so again, thank you for joining me today. I really appreciate it. You're quite welcome. Um, first question I like to ask is just kind of a question about you. So the podcast is consciously clueless. And that name came from this place of wanting to acknowledge how life sometimes you feel like you're totally with it, you get it, you're conscious, you're on top of it. And then other moments, you're like, no idea what I'm doing. I'm so clueless. So how are you feeling in this moment on that spectrum?

Bill Muir

In this moment? Well, full disclosure as an RN, who works nice, I just worked a 13 hour shift. So I've been I this is normally past my bedtime, it's 0906 my time, so you have slightly altered mental status in the hospital, we would call Ms. It looks slightly like that. But it also And usually, there's two versions of me when I'm sleepy like this, kind of like loopy, me. And that's where I am now. And there's also Grumpy Cat me. Luckily, you have like loopy, kind of like silly, friendly,

Carly Puch

Good.

Bill Muir

This will be fun versus buying. So my coworkers like me better when I'm grumpy because I come up with like little funny quips, but it's not meant to be funny. And you're just like, like, ah.

Carly Puch

So, um, you just said rn. So take me through that journey, I guess. And I'm guessing there's a lot of pieces to it. Because on Instagram, you're Sergeant vegan.

Bill Muir

Yes man.

Carly Puch

So your bio is vegan combat veteran registered nurse, there's a lot to unpack there.

Bill Muir

That was originally so before all that I was in bands. So if there was more lines, I would add, I used to be in a punk rock band, or whatever. And I did some did some projects that got kind of slightly nerd famous. And then, then the thought is, do I add that too? Sometimes I'll mention that if you look through the post, I'll go through that. But then, then it's like, how much how much do I want to add? And do I want to like, like, confuse people.

Carly Puch

Right? Right. Um, so tell me about your time as a combat veteran?

Bill Muir

Sure. So I joined the service after 911. So pre 911, I was living in Japan. So my whole career up until that point, my first degree is a Bachelor's in Japanese. I didn't know what I would do with a bachelor's in Japanese. So I moved to Japan. I wanted to become a translator and start moving to become a translator. I studied martial arts. Wow, I as a as a vegan straight edge individual very heavy into the punk and like hardcore music scene, I started getting into bands and playing in bands in the Tokyo scene. And that led me to sing on the Final Fantasy 10 soundtrack. And then so I started moving toward trying to make I wouldn't say career but I started to do like little TV spots and then think like, I wonder if I could make something of right of this whole thing. Then 911 hit and it was like a punch in the face like I had been living abroad for so long. And I at that point, I didn't even I guess it I guess I wasn't even really thinking of myself as an American, whatever that means, like, because I had been most of my friends were an American. I most of my friends were the Japanese or British or Australian expats. And it it just was like my whole world was rocked and mean everybody that was or whether you were here in the States or whether you're abroad, it just, it just felt like the end of days or something like that. So I thought like, Okay, first thing I'll do is maybe I'll, because there was a feeling I'm kind of one of those people that has to do something I, that it's one of my many character flaws is like I have to always do something or fix something. So

Carly Puch

I relate to that are our strengths are sometimes our weaknesses, right?

Bill Muir

Yep. So after the battle, let's start. We're gonna see benefit shows for, I think, children who's on, I started to realize that we were less than good things in Afghanistan dropping bombs on civilians. So then I started also making some of the benefit. It's toward the children who had died in bombings in Afghanistan, and join the military and do something like hands on. So I did just that. I left Japan, I went home, I joined the army, and I became a medic. And there was there's, I guess, a couple minor twists and turns along the way that I bring up in my book. I thought about becoming a ranger. Originally Special Forces. So with Ranger there that went kind of a side project, I ended up becoming a paratrooper with the 170 third, airborne. Oh, wow. And then I served gana Stan for a year. And I often thought while I was there, wouldn't it be ironic if we were killing some of the people that benefited from some of my benefits shows? And, yeah, and so after getting back from the States, I thought, Okay, what do I really want to do with my life at this time, and I thought was more than anything, I want to start a vegan restaurant, I want to help make the world a better place. And politics and war in the military. I didn't think any of that really did it. But just stopping the global destruction, climate change. And the really any main practice of slaughterhouses contributing to people having an alternative would be, I mean, a step in the right direction. So I went to culinary school. And I started trying to open a restaurant, and not having partners and having capital at that time, I just kind of like, kind of wondered what I was going to do with it. And it was 2008. I don't think vegan had really taken off.

Carly Puch

Yeah you were ahead of the curve.

Bill Muir

Yeah, I was a little too ahead of my time. And which, ironically, had it taken off, maybe it would have I mean, even if it had done really well with COVID, who knows what would happen, right, but 2010, the Haiti earthquake happened. And once again, I felt like that I need to do something. So an NGO brought me to Haiti and I worked in Haiti, just because I still had my certification as a medic. Okay. And that got me to thinking, you know what, maybe I should postpone this whole restaurant stuff for a bit. Maybe I'll go back in working like this. And that led to becoming a nursing assistant, which led me to going back in the military. Oh, wow. And I, I didn't realize so much as I just kind of slipped back in, but in the reserves, and I really enjoyed that. I really enjoy being in the reserves. I then started taking classes to become a registered nurse working at the VA, got my certification, my pet went through nursing school, got my nursing certification, went back in the VA, when I went to to Florida, which was my first job with back with the VA, but as an RN, okay. And I had that thought again, of man, I, I went to culinary school when I had spent all this time trying to make something with the whole vegan thing. Mm hmm. And it just kind of left me with like this, like maybe last time or I had compiled all this information from, you know, my time in culinary school, these vegan recipes to just all these ideas. So I started thinking, maybe I'll put it in a book. And then maybe I'll make that book like the least hippie, most accessible, vegan guy that's ever made because most of the vegan books I've seen are great. But they come from a very different granola a truly eat place that might not be as accessible to like the average Joe or something. Right

Carly Puch

For sure.

Bill Muir

So I came up with vegan strong, because the the motto for the army at the time that I was in was Army Strong. So I was like, maybe I'll just grab that. The time was I was writing it and had I had decided on that I thought, Man, maybe these guys will come after me because there was no other anything strong. And then the strong happened. And then almost after this, the school shootings in such almost every area added a strong name. So kind of it wasn't as unique at that point. But it was less a lot less chance the army was ever going to be grumpy at me. Right? And.

Carly Puch

Yeah, exactly. I hear you. So I thank you for sharing all that I literally had to grab a piece of paper because I was taking a few notes because I was like, I have so many questions, given everything you've done. So I'm curious about a lot of things. But when you said that you're, you know, someone who needs to, like, I need to do something I need to fix. I need to be a part of the solution. Did you have any military people in your family or anything like that? I'm curious to go from I'm living in Japan, in bands, working as a translator to be like, yeah, I think I should join the military?

Bill Muir

That's a good question. My dad was in the Navy. Okay. And my uncle was in the army, but neither of their experiences really played into mine. I, I think I went tree going vegan, I had thought about joining the military. And what had kind of actually stopped me was the fact that they were leather in the military. And that's when after going vegan, I was like, Well, I can never wear a leather there. Therefore, I can never go in the military. And that was I thought about joining around the time was a freshman in college. So that was when I was 18. I thought about it, and then I didn't end up joining until 911. And I was 29. That was so significant time.

Carly Puch

Ok. Wow. Um, so prior to I guess my assumption, which is so interesting, is that you went vegan later in life, because in my head, I can't even make the connection of like you being vegan already. And going into the military.

Bill Muir

So I later in life as in I wasn't an adult, because I was I went vegan at eight and 19. Okay, I was 18 vegan and 19.

Carly Puch

What influenced you there? How did that happen?

Bill Muir

The whole vegan vegetarian journey. So let's think back.

Carly Puch

Because again, you're you were ahead of your time.

Bill Muir

Very, I would say not necessarily in the best way. I mean, especially, you know, I'm this is like 25 when the when the Burger King came out with a vegan burger like, last year, so 27 years before they did that Carl's Jr. Has beyond burgers can go crazy. Anywhere and and get a beyond burger. It's nuts. And also not only that, but they have beyond breakfast sandwiches there and dunkin donuts. Wow. sandwiches. Now you have to ask them. Don't put the cheese on don't put the egg on. But I mean it's totally exciting. And I love living in this age of easy vegan. I know what sometimes I talked to some people and they're like, Oh, it's a mock meet or something easy. You should need it. I'm like, Man, I'm almost at 30 years of doing this. Anything that could make it easier is better. And I literally think at this point, if it was any easier. I the only way it could be easier is if someone held me like a baby, eat my food up and had it in my mouth. Whatever. Where they want everything to them. I mean, seriously, it's it's super.

Carly Puch

Yeah.

Bill Muir

Yes. I got us derailed but what is uh, how did you become vegan or vegetarian at 18 and then vegan at 19. So before I went vegetarian or vegan, I gave up drinking in my first week of college. Wow. So I was heavily into the punk rock scene there's a minor threat which is about kind of like be becoming your authentic you by now. mudding your brain and your body with poison and drugs and stuff like that. And I, that resonated with me because I spent my senior what would be senior week in that whole summer before my, between my senior right after I graduated from high school, to my freshman, became a freshman in college, I spent that whole summer working on a ship. And with alcoholics, instead of like being able to see, you know, like, instead of it being like, Yay, it's like senior week and a bunch of 18 year olds are drinking and it's all fun. It was like 40 to 5060 year olds getting drunk and like shitting themselves and getting in the fights. And and seeing that as the wonderful world of alcoholism.

Carly Puch

Yeah, where were you?

Bill Muir

That was all up and down the East Coast.

Carly Puch

Okay.

Bill Muir

And so that got me thinking, I really I need to make sure that like, make sure that never becomes me. And somehow it solidified it started to just it as an idea at hoc go straight edge, which people it's incredible. When you tell someone that they don't you don't drink, they automatically assume you're you're a recovering alcoholic. Yeah. Or, or that you're you just are not fun. And I'm like, Well, I mean, I kind of think I'm fun. At least sometimes. And yeah, no, I'm not an alcoholic, or former. I mean, I don't have anything against those people. A lot of them are my patients. But that's not me. Mm hmm. I went into to college my freshman year, kind of with that idea. Someone threw me a beer. First week out, I took a sip. And I'm like, you know what, fuck all this. I'm straight edge. And yeah. And that was kind of like, a feeling right there of like, it weirdly was the most rebellious thing I could possibly do. Because in high school, yeah, I drank in high school, like everyone I knew like, and that was rebelling, but weirdly saying I would not be drinking those, you know, or doing drugs or getting into substances was more of a rebellion said hey, like, I will be my authentic self. And you're gonna have to like it, whether you you know, or at least you're gonna have to do with it. And so, after doing that, and having that that thought, somehow, I think through bumping into people who I had dabbled with being vegetarian. That idea was exposed to me that that and I think I it was actually from a girl that I had dated, had. She wasn't even vegetarian. She had just said she didn't eat veal. And I remember ridiculing that idea. I was like, that's not because she was being didn't want to be cruel to cows, but that she still ate beef. Right? Right. She just didn't want like the baby cow. Like so what happens when the cow grows up? I thought I was like, This idea is ridiculous. This doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense. It's it's contradictory. But what that I that exposure to that idea had put it in my head and then very back of it, but maybe think, you know, why do people eat animals? It's not like we're cavemen. It's not like there's any need for it. It's not like, I mean, and then the whole like it, it just kind of was in the back of my head. Yeah. Oh, when lint rolled around, because I was raised Catholic and up until I went to college, I at least kind of, you know, kind of followed along with what they were doing. My mom asked me Okay, it's time for Len, what are you going to give up for Lent? And to be snarky? And maybe an asshole I said, I'm gonna not eat meat. Now. Nowadays, if you told someone you weren't eating meat for 40 days, it'd be like, Oh, that sounds like a like a nice cleanse or something. Right? Like some celebrity might endorse but then that was basically like a fuck you to science because science said that you needed to eat animals. Nutrition said that too. Then what about all these institutions? What about this, that and the other and I said that I'll be fine. I'm just gonna not eat meat and people literally said nice knowing you like it with a like, not not a joke, but they thought I was gonna die. Oh my god, we're getting very sick. Did any of that happen? No. Just being vegetarian for 14 days. Nothing happened. Maybe I felt a little bit better. I was a college wrestler at that point. I'm in great shape. I was fine.

Carly Puch

Right.

Bill Muir

And at that point, just being straight edge being busy. Attarian opened my mind up to be kind of like I heard the word vegan. And at some shows people were passing around leaflets from PETA, because there was no internet at that time. So I got a leaflet from from PETA at a I can't remember what the band was, but on seeing it, and then kind of starting to read read up on it, I was like, Huh, this is kind of interesting and kind of weird how why people would eat an egg from a chicken and feel like that's a need. Or like, drink, you know, milk for baby cows. And then that got me starting to thinking about the byproducts and because before I just, like vegetarian, I'm like, Okay, look at me, I'm, I'm doing something good, right? Most people thought I was thought being vegetarian itself was insane. So vegan wasn't even like it just vegetarian was mind blowing.

Carly Puch

Right?

Bill Muir

And then I remember I delivered a pizzas for Domino's. My, I guess the summer after my freshman year, and I started that experience still eating cheese pizza. And then in the middle of it, I would, I was like, not so into, you know, eating cheese anymore. And I would just peel the cheese off pizza. And then by the end of it, I was like, it has to be like made without it. Or I'm not going to eat it. I don't want. I don't want that you're touching anything I'm going to eat. That's disgusting. That was 1992.

Carly Puch

Wow. Wow, I think it's so what's striking me most is how this how our society is set up to a point where choosing to not drink alcohol, and choosing to make dietary choices and be vegan is rebellious.

Bill Muir

Isn't that ridiculous?

Carly Puch

Isn't that wild? Like those are the rebellious things. Yeah. It's crazy. I haven't drank in like 13 months. And I started because it was skyrocketing. My anxiety, I was having some mental health stuff. And I was like, I'm just gonna take a break. And then I just kind of kept not drinking. I was like, I feel so much better. And now I don't even think about it. But what I noticed in the beginning, was how uncomfortable it made other people know, like, I'd go out with my friends and sit at the bar and get some tea. And I'm gregarious, and I don't need alcohol to talk to anybody. And people be like, oh, should I not drink? Are you okay? Is something wrong? Like I, I just want some tea. Like it was so much more stressful for other people than it was for me. Which I think is so interesting.

Bill Muir

Yeah. Well, that and it depends if you're just going out to have fun versus you're going out to get fuckin like, hammer. I mean, those are two is our culture. And to be fair to America, I mean, cultures. A lot of other cultures have been into part of like drinking to the point where you're like, you're you've lost control is kind of part of it. Yeah. Which I mean, I guess I guess, but it's not really my jam.

Carly Puch

Was that hard in college just because binge drinking is such a cultural thing. It was.

Bill Muir

I guess it was hard in college. very absurd in Japan, because the Japanese drinking culture is very pressuring Oh, man in the military, but like, off the charts. But I think through all of this, it has made me a very strong person. Hmm. Like, I mean, and having that will. I mean helps me in every almost everything I do today, especially I work with work with veterans on a med surg telemetry floor. Often people who have had crazy trauma, or they're going through dementia, or alcohol withdrawal, and just having like the I, again, I think it comes from having so many years of being able to having to be strong to say, like needs or I need you to do this, right? And there's no like, B or C, it's, this is what we're going to do. And, I mean, you can, we can, you can take all the time you want with it, but this is how it's going to be right because the B and C are not options. It's just and nine times out of 10 it just works because they're like, Well, okay, I mean, fuck they give me that smile option. I know I had a demented patient today. They are just unable to do anything with them like no worries, I'm like this just such and such I need you to sit. We're going to like draw your blood. And he would try to move. No, we're okay. And it took two or three minutes. And then I got him to sit, and then turned his arm over and we drew drew blood. That was just I think, I think the fact that it wasn't like, I wasn't like, Well, sir, if you want if you if you don't want it, you know, it was right now it's gonna be the nuts. There's no, this is the this is the way the highway is going it doesn't it there's no reverse in the highway.

Carly Puch

Does that... do you think that's influenced to buy your time in the military?

Bill Muir

Very much. So I mean, I, the surgeon vegan comes from I was a sergeant. So.

Carly Puch

Right.

Bill Muir

And, yeah, no, I mean, I was in charge of people and stuff. So having, having that, that experience of telling people like, Hey, this is how it's going to use what you're going to do. And this is how it's going to be. At first probably it was a weird switchover. Because for a lot of time, and military is just in charge of making sure my platoon was was safe, by just taking making sure I was saved. But then then when it converted to I have to tell other people what, like, tell other people how they should do things. And you know that that was kind of a transition?

Carly Puch

What was it like being vegan and straight edge in the military?

Bill Muir

So being vegan straight edge in the military? That's a good question. I think being vegan straight edge in America is different from being vegan, straight edge in Japan is different for you in Europe. And it also depends on I think the big thing is, what you're doing and who your friends are, right? What your what your job is what your social circle, for example, in Japan, very big drinking culture. So people would kind of look at me, their first first thought is, oh, it's weird that you're a white guy, then it's so weird that you're a white guy, and you speak Japanese. And then it's weird that you're a white guy. speak Japanese, but you don't drink. And then on top of that, you don't eat animals, like what the fuck is going on? Who are you? Exactly. Then in Europe, a little bit of the same, but then I knew a lot of vegans straight edge. Or at least some vegans strange people in in Europe when I lived in Italy, and in Japan, I knew some too. So if in my my close circle, it was like, you know, and being in the states like, yes, some people, they they look at us kind of like we're weird. But then your friends are like, yeah, I get it. Like, it's not that it's not weird. I mean, it's as weird as we are so right. In the military, also a big, big drinking culture. So they look at that weird, obviously the same thing as they would look at being being vegan as kind of like a weird thing, especially if you're from Texas, and you've never met somebody who's not from Texas. And then on top of that, they're telling you that plants have all the protein that you need. I'm sure it's a cultural experience. Yeah. I think this straight edge thing didn't come up as much in the military, unless we were just quote unquote, in garrison meaning able to do whatever we want. If you're in training, whether it's boot camp, usually airborne school, whether I was in rip, or doing other training, you're mostly in a dry environment. So you're and deployed to, except for some circumstances where people might have been able to get booze on the sly usually, to dry environments. So other than smoking, I mean, no one I knew that was a smoker going into the military quit because it's not not it holds smoking, if you got them kind of nonsense that you see on TV still, to some extent, even in 2020, I'm sure. Wild not in basic training, but if you're deployed, what are you doing other than waiting for something bad to happen? Or, or on the way to it? You know, right. How is it like to be vegan in the military? Well, it depends on what you're doing, what your branch is, where you are, and whether you're in a training scenario, whether you deployed whether you're right person, so for me, it wasn't always bad to be vegan in the military. When I was I was stationed in Italy, I had access to plenty of vegan food. I bring it up bring up in my book, I had access to a kitchen because I I pulled some strings in and work the system to be able to get kitchen and to get my own apartment. But while I was in basic training, it was pretty much a suck fest. It's not that anyone was forcing me to eat meat was forcing me to eat dairy say, I'm sure plenty of people were telling me that beacons were dumb, but no one was actually trying to tell me or forcing me to eat anything. It's just that they didn't have vegan options. So breakfast breakfast might be dry cereal. Why? Because they I mean they had cornflakes, cornflakes or vegan,

Carly Puch

Right.

Bill Muir

Did they have soy milk, hemp milk, oat milk, rice milk, you know? No, they did have cow's milk, which I do not drink. So then the next option was, I wanted something on it, I might put like fruit cocktail on it.

Carly Puch

Cuz that sounds so awful.

Bill Muir

It is bad. It is bad. And I do not recommend it at any point. But the thing is, I think it wasn't all that bad for me, because I realized long ago that almost everything in life is temporary. So know whether it's that thing that's ever happened to you, or the worst thing. It has an expiration date on it, you're gonna get through it. I remember going on family trips as the only vegan until my brother went vegan, where there wouldn't be anything. So I would have like, I would make a broccoli sandwich, I would take two pieces of bread, I would put broccoli on it and eat it at any point is that something like that you're like Yum, yum, yum. Oh, sucks. Um, and I have and most people that I know that have been vegan like me for decades, um, I met 20 years in some change. So pretty soon going out with three decades. You if you've been vegan that long, you have almost an infinite amount of and no shit there. I was sucking it up kind of vegan stories. But I think a more important thing for listeners and people who are thinking about going vegan to realize is that shit is in the past, right? Like, yeah, me and people that I know that are like me have paved the way we had were there. We were, we would choose to not eat an animal in literally any circumstance right now. Oh, it's more the cert more the choice of There you are. You're in Carl's Jr. Do you get the beyond burger, which is extremely delicious. As long as you ask for no cheese, or do you eat a dead animal? Basically roadkill? I mean, it's...

Carly Puch

Right.

Bill Muir

The I guess your only question is fries and a soda. Where do you like try to pretend that you're being healthy and just drink water? I think there's, it's it's, I guess that's where vegan is now and that's where vegan always should have been. Right? Oh, yeah, I like to make make sure that we always go back to that fact. Because I think when we harp too much on, you know the workbook quote unquote, vegan war stories. I think people get lost in the fact that vegan is so super easy. And if you're not doing it, you got to question yourself, like, why aren't? Why not?

Carly Puch

Well, and I think that I always love those memes or when people post about stuff. When someone tells them I've never eaten anything vegan. It's like, yeah, an apple.

Bill Muir

Yeah, someone brought up the other day Skittles. Have you ever had Skittles then you have had a vegan snack? Yeah. And I remember when I when Skittles first went vegan because they weren't vegan originally. When they first went vegan, we ate Skittles all the time. And no, I can't stand Skittles. If someone offers them to me? I'll be like, I...

Carly Puch

Can't do it.

Bill Muir

Yeah, it would, I would have it would have to be some extreme circumstances.

Carly Puch

Were you like kind of razzed in the military for being vegan because I interviewed john rush. He's a Canadian pro football player, okay. And he was worried at first about sharing that he was vegan, like, if there would be repercussions.

Bill Muir

What that people would would make fun of him like?

Carly Puch

Well, that and if they were gonna, like question his ability to be a strong athlete and be on the field...

Bill Muir

I can understand that. Not that it not that eating plant based, or vegan has any effect on that. We're only in that perception in that you. I mean, some of the some of the shit that I got was was fact based, and that I was trying out to be a ranger. And I think the bottom line was not to overstate it, but I I remember the inprocess day where he said men, Rangers are not soldiers. They're fucking killers. I mean, that was kind of mentality. And here I am like, I'm a really good medic. But I'm obviously not a killer. Right? If I'm eating like crap, Likely to try to save someone than kill them. So maybe that I could see that being called into question especially if you're like, you know, if your mentality is let's go kill some motherfuckers kind of like that right there. I can't see the air quotes probably on the podcast which I can understand that mentality and if you get in the mentality I can understand in the military where you would question you know, vegans. Now granted, I was a medic and and let's go save some motherfuckers might be more more my mental right, right? no air quotes for that. If you're a football player, it's kind of a similar mentality. You know, or no, it's like super, super macho or whatever. But uh, yeah, I get it. I get I mean, military is kind of a gang frat mentality. Like it's very us against them even. Even just within branch within people are doing a similar thing. It's so us against them. Like, I remember as someone trying out to be a ranger. There was so much like, complete disdain for non paratroopers. And people they're basically like if you're not at least a paratrooper, you're a complete piece of shit. Wow. Like we mostly them, but I mean, everyone called people that were not paratroopers legs, cuz apparently like they basically. Yeah, would sometimes to their faces, like, like, we would go to a dining facility and call it a D fac. Mm hmm. All the leg D fac. And we would just call it the leg defect and call them that while we were there. And that's kind of the the attitude that the military I bet basically, I think why creates that it creates a tribalism.

Carly Puch

Right. That's intentional, right?

Bill Muir

Oh, yeah. It's part of in process. It's part of you create a person for a job. And you create the person who has the mentality for that job. Because you're you're creat going to be creating, you're passing on not only the how you do something, but how you think about doing something,

Carly Puch

Right. Which is fascinating, and also kind of scary that that?

Bill Muir

Oh, it's it's terrifying. But, you know, some of it is necessary, especially with like, my job. It was never totally asked upon me. But it was always kind of like, possibly there that we're going to ask you to do some shit that would probably get you killed. And bare minimum, we're gonna ask you to jump out of an airplane, right with a whole bunch of equipment. And if you don't do that, you're fucking out of here.

Carly Puch

Right? Which is a pretty heavy bare minimum.

Bill Muir

Yeah. So you kind of create this, this persona, and you're kind of brainwashed into it. And I think part of the brainwashing to be fair to the military is necessary to kind of kind of squash those thoughts of Hey, maybe I shouldn't be doing this shit, because it's counter Purdue it counterproductive to me living through this. Right. You know, that's dark. So yeah. But anyway, I that's, I guess one of the things about being a sergeant vegan and that, like, yeah, the sergeant, you know, Sergeant vegan, it's a playful take on the fact that I was vegan in the military, but I was definitely in the military. So that's, you know, I think it's good to be multifaceted when people are only like, Oh, yes, I am. This and it's just that, you know, it's kind of a boring kind of boring too. I think. I think people should be multi dimensional and be able to see other people's focuses, whether it's no politics, or food or whatever, you know,

Carly Puch

Did you convert anyone in the military to veganism? Probably not when you're eating frosted fruit cup.

Bill Muir

I had a lot of conversations about it. I know people dabbled in plant based on talking to me. Uh, I think what I did more than making someone or pushing someone to go full vegan or plant based or whatever, is I know, I made people rethink whatever likes like snickering jokes they might have about vegans, especially when I was beating them in a physical fitness test, and like, slapping them in like yelling as I ran by, it's because you're not vegan. Like, I might have part of where the surgeon vegan came came about as creating a character is there was this wrestling character called Sergeant slaughter. It was a GI Joe character. I think Okay, and I thought it would be funny to apply how I was in the military, which was way over the top way overdoing it as a way to basically shut up some people who were talking about talking shit about me being vegan. So I would outdo them so and call them a fucking worse for not working out enough, right and basically call into question their whole like well I mean well who fucking cares if I'm beating you right here?

Carly Puch

Yeah Good for you