How to Grow Through the Stages of Veganism With Shane Campbell




Shane Campbell uses his social media influence to encourage followers to go vegan. He shares about tasty vegan eats, plant-based eating education, and much more. Shane and Carly talk about the many stages of becoming and being vegan. They discuss the importance of being able to take criticism and to always continue learning.


Please note, this episode has been transcribed by a computer, expect some typos!


Carly Puch

Welcome back to another episode of Consciously Clueless. I'm your host, Carly, and I'll be your guide on this journey from consciousness to cluelessness and back around again. Today on the podcast, I talked to Shane Campbell, otherwise known as vegan country boy on social media. Shane uses his platforms to promote veganism, and talk about how to be an activist. As you'll hear in the episode, he is also in the midst of editing a documentary about veganism that he himself created. Enjoy the episode. Thank you for joining me on the podcast. I really, really appreciate it.

Shane Campbell

Thanks for having me.

Carly Puch

So you said that you've listened to the podcast before so you probably know this is coming. But the title is consciously clueless. So I am really loving asking people that I interview where they're at kind of on that scale, from consciousness to cluelessness. Where Where are you at right now in this moment?

Shane Campbell

And to be truthful, I don't know, I'd say somewhere in between, to be honest. And the reason for that, I suppose is because two years ago, if you would have asked me this question, I want to say that I was conscious, but obviously, two years on now I look back and I'm like, Whoa, you know, I've learned so much in the last two years, and in all aspects of life, not just with veganism. And yeah, I just think you continue to learn and continue to grow. So I think answering conscious would be incorrect. Let's say in two years time, if he asked me the same question again, I'd probably be like, in between.

Shane Campbell

So what is the two year mark? What happened two years ago do you feel like that kind of catapulted change?

Shane Campbell

And I suppose when I first started, I was very across the board, you can be vegan, there's no excuse why you can't be vegan, I was very much like it, ignore all the other reason to it, and it was just my way or the highway. And so in the last two years, I've had a kind of major wake up call in regards to my privilege and white veganism as well. I've looked into all sides of veganism. And then yeah, looking back and kind of like, Oh, that's a little bit embarrassing. Pause again, you know, two years on online and I'm sure in two years time, we have learned more than I've learnt now. So am Yeah, it's just it's it's crazy. It's crazy how much she actually learned when you are ordinaries, I suppose.

Shane Campbell

Yeah, I really appreciate you sharing that. You said things two years ago, like everyone can be vegan that now you look at differently because especially in the age of this idea of canceled culture, were saying something wrong could get you cancelled, which I think there's some validity to calling people out. But canceling people just means no growth. So like being able to be here and say, Yeah, I said some things that now I understand are wrong. Because I've done that, especially with veganism and my privilege, or my privilege. Basically, with any topic, I'm sure I can look back at things that I just want to crawl into a cave, and pretend never happened. But I think being able to say like, yeah, that I've, I've totally messed up is super powerful for other people to have permission to learn and be clumsy.

Shane Campbell

Yeah, I think that 100% like in regards to self growth, I think I wouldn't be probably where I am now in regards to knowledge if it wasn't kind of criticism along the way. And I know like a lot of people in the vegan community, it's like, Don't criticize not a vegan, which I agree if someone's doing activism, as long as you're not taken for motor movements, and, you know, I suppose heartened people in a sense, and, you know, it's, but in my eyes, it's kind of like, you know, criticism is a part of life. And I think it definitely helps you grow. And I think I wouldn't have done it two years ago, if I hadn't been criticized along the way I wouldn't be kind of where I am now in regards to a mindset. So yeah, I think, like you said, you know, we all grow and, you know, who knows where we'll be in 10 years time when it comes to veganism.

Shane Campbell

Maybe we'll do another episode in two years and go oh, my gosh, all the stuff we said in that first.

Shane Campbell

Yeah, we just play like snippets back and be like, embarrassment.

Carly Puch

Exactly. I like that you said the word mindset because I think it takes a mindset shift to also be able to take that criticism, you know, like, not be upset with it, but be thankful, which is not what we're taught to do when someone criticizes us, but to be like, Oh, I'm so glad that was brought to my attention. Instead of saying, screw this. I'm not listening.

Shane Campbell

Yeah, 100% you don't learn that way? Like? Well, I find that's my opinion. Don't learn that way. If no, if you just write off everyone's criticism, how do you grow with a like a person who's Well, you've had on the podcast as a poor, like, I know, for the last couple of months, and just always opened, like, it's just, it's amazing what you learn. And she is for anyone that is listening, I would definitely check her out. She's amazing.

Carly Puch

Yeah, it's people like that, that are I'm thankful for being willing to be those voices, because it's not easy. Some things the porn shares on her social media. As a black woman who was talking about veganism, she gets so many direct messages from people talking about, basically why she shouldn't have said something or whatever it is. And it's astounding. it's astounding what people will say, and the fact that she's willing to be there and take that, in terms of creating content and teaching people is incredible.

Shane Campbell

Yeah, yeah. No, 100% she's, she's amazingly strong, to be fair. And, you know, I've learned loads from from her industrious. Another example of how, you know, watching people take criticism can help you grow.

Carly Puch

Yeah, definitely, with a lot of the things going on and conversations going on. Within the US. There were a lot of moments over the past few months where I've had to do some examination, because I think, especially when you are vegan, and you care about the environment, and you're privileged. And all the other things, it's really easy to be like I'm so woke, I get it. Like, I totally understand how the world works. And like continuing to be like no, I don't

Shane Campbell

No, really like is, and I think as well, like, see, for a lot a lot of it for me was and I don't think I just got caught up in the animal industry and the cruelty and I just put blinders on. And because I just wouldn't acknowledge anything, of course, not doing that. Now not saying obviously animal factory and all bollettino we're talking about people in in different countries with like, food deserts and people that don't have, you know, don't have the privilege we have say. And so, you know, I've understood that to a point now where I'm where I just, I don't I just I don't make comparisons, and I understand where the line is. And I'm glad for two to be honest. Yeah, it's

Carly Puch

Same, same, same, same same even even when it's hard. It's definitely work worth doing. Yeah. So tell us about how you became vegan.

Shane Campbell

And so yeah, literally, I was a massive Meteor. I you see me like twice a day. And like on a spiritual stuff, I used to believe in like, low carb diets, and I just eat like, a lot of chicken breasts and just, I just have a lot of protein with my chicken breast. minced beef, I would have cooked that open, I just eat it like flavor with some spices, wherever and just eat a bowl of it. Like, I'm looking back now actually just makes me a bit sick. But I am put as to how I got there, I suppose when they kind of went down a bit of a rabbit hole. I went on Netflix, I looked at a couple of environmental documentaries on netflix. cowspiracy I think was one of them. And I was really intrigued by it. And I was like, Oh, do I not notice? I will not see everything up in thought is like I was what what am I now? 30 I'm 30 now, so I would have been 25 or 20? Yeah, 25. And I was looking at that. And I was like, I'm 25 years of age. And I have no idea of this. I will that. And then I suppose with Google showing you documentaries that you might like and like that, and you know kind of going down and watching Earthlings and then that just sounds like it just blew my mind like that. That was happening. And I kind of went I talked to a few people and I was like I'm going vegan like I did my research. It wasn't a thing of I just watched a documentary like a lot of people kind of, especially non vegans when he mentioned documentary like oh, you watch vegan propaganda documentary and you went vegan, but it's not that like looked into. Yeah, I looked into animal farming and art and I looked into and it just kind of came They told me that that food on the table was an animal that I don't need to be in. So, yeah, I kind of talked to a few people. I was like, I'm going vegan, and we're like, don't go vegan, like go vegetarian. That's just way too extreme to go straight vegan. So I was like, No, no, I think like, and I was like, Yeah, okay, or whatever to a few years ago, maybe, was, I couldn't consume any dairy products after seeing what I seen. And after looking into it, so yeah, just went straight from a massive Meteor to Australian to vegan.

Carly Puch

And how was that transition in terms of food and everything? Did you find it hard to go? No pun intended cold turkey.

Shane Campbell

And I suppose it was, it was challenging at first, because, like, whenever, like, I have a sister who's vegetarian. So like, she helped me a good bit in regards to what I needed to get what proteins, you know, what vitamins I needed to get and stuff. So like that was that that wasn't too bad. But it is a massive change, I suppose not so much now, but like, I am vegan about four and a half years now. So like four and a half years ago, a lot of stuff that was vegan didn't have vegan Siberian ingredients. So like really gradients and stuff, you know, was tricky as for the first Bush, and yeah, like I had two friends as well that were vegan, and they were vegan for I think what almost vegan for five or six, seven years before I was so I went to them and kind of advice off them for the wasn't terribly difficult or anything. I'm a little bit stubborn that way I kind of wouldn't let it be anywhere. Once I'd kind of set my mind to it. I was like, that is that's it. But I do think it's important like that you do the research and look into what you need to get in where you need to get it because that is massively important. You know, a lot of people are vegan and then three eating chips for like six months then ago, I got sick on veganism. You didn't get sick on veganism. You got sick because you're eating chips for six months.

Carly Puch

Yeah I think it's so interesting that once you tell people in your life, oh, I'm on a plant based diet, or I eat vegan or whatever you say. So many people turn into nutritionists all of a sudden, and ask all these questions that they can't answer for their own diet, right? Like how much protein Do you get like, well, how much protein do you get?

Shane Campbell

Oh, my God, like protein doesn't exist when you eat me apparently, because it's just an automatic. Like, and same of it means like volume of the theory that everyone should probably supplementing because I say if you check three quarters of people, I'd say what, regardless of what you eat, you're definitely lacking in something might say. So I think supplements are great for them. It is like everyone you talk to as nutritionist, like the amount of times when I in the first couple of months, I couldn't get over it. I was like, they were like, Yeah, no, that's not good. You need to get your protein. And it's just, it's mind boggling to show. I think that's the only meat cultured or like that it's like it's been put on the meat industry that people are like, Well, hold on, like, you know, nice. You can't get protein from anything but me. So yeah. And that is definitely everyone becomes a nutritionist, you hit the nail on the head here.

Carly Puch

Yeah, and it's so interesting, because there is concern over protein. But then again, people don't actually know like, what vitamins and proteins and whatever like do in our body or why we need them or anything like that, like people. And I'm totally generalizing here, and I get that. But there is often a response from people who are maybe fine eating McDonald's, right, or whatever it is, but are like but be careful about being vegan. And once you kind of start looking into it Are you really am going into this world of food and how it's been marketed to us. You're like, Wait a second.

Shane Campbell

Yeah, you could be in the smoking area of a pub, someone could be drinking a pint smoking a flag and telling you, veganism is. So it's just crazy. And it's about perspective, like, you know what I mean? Like, people have no problem going down. And I'm not I'm not shaming anyone. You know, I love fast food. So like if you want to eat fast food or any fast food, but and you know, people have no problem going and eating fast food. But as soon as you said, you know, I'm going to be in chickpeas and more vegetables and more greens and stuff that you may have to eat when you're growing up. They're all like, Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, that's not good.

Carly Puch

Yeah, it's so interesting. I think that was one of the things that was really good about a lot of the documentaries but in the game changers, they did a good job of talking about marketing. And, you know, the connection to the meat industry and just how it was a Clear shift from cigarettes, being marketed by doctors choosing their favorite cigarette like this is what I smoke on a break in between surgery. And then they realized they couldn't do that anymore. So it became food and it became meat. And it was like this clear shift of its marketing. It's wild to me that's like, blew my mind and then pissed me off.

Shane Campbell

Yeah, well, if you see the transition between, like the early smoking, the early smoking market and the early meat market are identical. Like even the colors and stuff like in order just lay like it's mental that delivery just magically the same on the soul, to be honest, like, did they have instill that into society? Like the people are like, even with, like toxic masculinity? Like it's like real man each means if you don't eat meat, not every man.

Carly Puch

Does that persist in Ireland as well? Like, how did you feel any of that when you went vegan? That there was like, a question of your manhood?

Shane Campbell

Yeah, I do think i think that's, I think that's quite across the board. To be honest, I will I find seen online and so forth in Ireland, I just feel like toxic masculinity and a nice kind of go hand in hand a lot. And I have had it like, where it's kind of like, where you don't eat meat? You know, it's, it's definitely questionable. Like, and I think it's in the stats, if you look at how many, how many women are, are vegan and vegetarian compared to how many men or you know, I mean, the proof is in the pudding there, I suppose in regards to toxic masculinity.

Carly Puch

Yeah, definitely. That's, I think, why the game changers ended up being one of my favorite documentaries to show to people or to recommend, specifically to men, because I was like, look at these athletes and these strong men, and they eat plants and they're fine. And you can be too.

Shane Campbell

Yeah, I like to actually put in the, the pure directions with pompous parity in meat. But I was gasp because it's just a good one for anyone that's been like toxic or not talking about masculine he just throw it out there under like, a lot. So that's a enjoyed that. Yeah, did enjoy game changes. It's a good one because it was, first of its kind of, of its type, I suppose in regards to you can be an athlete and be vegan.

Carly Puch

So you are working speaking of documentaries on a project?

Shane Campbell17:31

Yes. So I started was it as before COVID. And so I've kind of got a bit sidetracked with it, but I'm hoping to get it back on track. Now for March I'd say we are shot or last year, I took basically one of my friends who was like his man into the gym. He plays Harlan, which is a sport. I don't know, if you probably don't know what harden is do. You should look it up. And you should definitely look up to be crazy. It's Yeah, it's pretty. It's pretty physical game. And I think what does Jason Stan say? He says it's a mix between hockey and death. I think he says, Sure. So it's a pretty it's a pretty physical game. But yeah, he's mad into the gym and Harlan and I approached him to be honest, because I thought he would be a lot of people in order to be one at least, like likely to go vegan. So I was like, and he's quite ripped as well. He's, he's quite muscular. So I was like, I'll approach Matthew and asked him and I suppose he he said he'd get back to me and we had a talk about it. And about a week later, he got back to me and said, we'll do it for a certain amount of pennisetum one of the main things I want for this documentary is I he you can't tell people you're doing a documentary. So I wanted him to kind of go in to work and stuff and I want them to face the kind of questions and ridicule you get for your religious not wanting to contribute to cruelty. And I said you can say your environment you can say it's for health reasons or you can say it's for animals but you can't say you're doing a documentary you have to act like it's it's set in stone and tomorrow we want to do Yeah, yeah cuz I just thought it'd be interesting to see it was a bit of a capo If not, because he just got I'm doing it for documentary niblick Oh, good luck with that. Right and the amount of amount of stuff he faced and the amount of criticism he faced and urine and work on people just making smart comments. And literally just saying, you're gonna lose your muscle. It was just a rageous to be honest. And so yeah, we shut that and it's all fall short. We just need to kind of get an edit and that's I'm not going to give away any end in writing books. is a pretty crazy three months. We started in October, and we finish up a Christmas because I wanted him to go through a tough period which is like Christmas is massive in Ireland in regards to like Turkey, ham, and well in general once that meat is fairly cabbage and bacon, and that is very, very much an Irish thing. Which so went went great. And I'm hoping to get that out in March.

Carly Puch

Is that something you want to do more of creating documentaries around veganism and activism?

Shane Campbell

Yeah, and definitely like I, I studied TV media in college, like finish up was a two years ago. And then I did the documentary with me, like, I just enjoy documentaries anywhere. And hence, when watching conspiracy, I was just going through the list and got into it. It wasn't like a, I just kind of stumbled across that kind of thing. And then I was like, what, uh, I'm going back into that story. But anyway, so yeah, I kinda, I definitely do you want to make more of that in the future. And like, I did the one on Maui, which is taken me or which has been done before in the states and stuff was, hasn't been done in Ireland and Ireland is very much like, I think when we look at these kind of documentaries online or look at animal agriculture, in general, we always kind of point the finger mark, or, oh, yeah, that's not over here. That's over there. Over there, so we do like pointing fingers. So I wanted to kind of take is that an Irish person with all he has around them? How he can transition from being in athletes eating loads of meat to gone vegan? So I thought it was kind of a little spin that people can point to finger pasta wars anymore?

Carly Puch

What other topics or ideas? Or maybe you know, you don't want to share? No one can steal your ideas? But do you want to do more things like that specifically? Or like what other things do you think would be great to create films about?

Shane Campbell

I think environmental is a big one as well. And because without the environment, we don't have any of this. So I think that's an important one. And I suppose a bit more originality, and like I said, documentary is no, suppose it has been done before? or? Yeah, I'll probably look to maybe environmental issues and see what else I suppose I can do in regards to veganism.

Carly Puch

Did you because you started with stumbling across a documentary? Did that cowspiracy and will Earthlings I can't watch all of Earthlings. So good for you for getting through it. Because I, I will fully admit I can't, I can't get through it. It is intense.

Shane Campbell

Yeah. And I think that's part of why the documentary I haven't really edited fully, we got like I emailed the director, producer, director of Dominion the movie and asked him to use it and reuse it and film. So my thing was, I wanted to show it as well. And I want to show my industry. So we got permission to film in a local cinema. And we got the screen to ourselves. So I had my sat down, watch the entire film and cinema, which was, it was crazy watching on the big screen like that. Even I was filming a little bit engrossed in it, but also, I'm having to edit that now. So I've got a kind of, that's part of the I didn't and it just breaks my heart, like in the seminar tunes, like, it's just, I don't know how, like, a lot of people turn articles off after 10 minutes, like and I see why, like, I kind of made myself watch three quarters of it. And then when I got into fire, I was just kind of like a finished Apple like you literally just rips your soul apart.

Carly Puch

Yeah, it's one of those things that you can't unsee you can't know, what is happening behind the scenes and I to circle back, I started my vegan journey for health, and then dominoed into the environment and then animal rights and then you know, everything else. So do you kind of start in one area? Like it sounds like you were really affected by the animal cruelty and then kind of everything else? Or were you just like everything all at the same time?

Shane Campbell

I think domino effect is like the perfect word use there because like, you know, you go from animals to like, no, human rights, like it is also like, it's all together like it's no, like intertwined. And, you know, like a first I suppose a look into animals, and then it was like, human rights and then all people working in slaughterhouses with PTSD. You know, like, it's just so much to do like, you know, a lot of people go vegan for the animals that can I probably would have said that two years ago, but so much more to know, like human and non human animals like so. I definitely think that's really important to point out and, like I would have originally been like, vegan for the animals but speaking for everything like this for which reason for it?

Carly Puch

Yeah, I think that was another thing that really pissed me off in the beginning. And I went through that angry vegan phase. I don't know if you are familiar or if you felt that effect, but it felt like the matrix, right, where you're just like, Oh, I'm seeing everything so differently. And I'm so pissed off that I didn't know until now. And it's all connected.

Shane Campbell

Yeah, it's it's absolutely crazy matrix. He literally you just over 2525 years, that's like, if I was lucky enough to live to 100 deaths a quarter of my life, I was, I wouldn't say lied to, like, my parents brought me up to where they were brought up. So it wasn't them lying to me. We were nearly lied to by tonight, just to say he like and yes, it was pretty, pretty crazy when you open your eyes, and I see what you mean with the angry Wii. And I think everyone kind of goes through that phase, because you're that annoyed and angry about the fact that people because it's like a switch once you can make that connection. It's like you're switched on. And you're like, why can't you see this latch? And then every so often, I do have to take a step back and go, Oh, hold on, you took 25 years to see this. And if I was talking years ago, while we would have talked to myself, no. So yeah, I totally get angry vegan parents. And I, you know, I think every so often everyone gets that, you know, you do go back to kinda go remember what the goal is. And sometimes, and you just have to kind of step back a little bit.

Carly Puch

Yeah, I, I've mentioned this a few times on the podcast now people are gonna get sick of it. But my best friend growing up and still is we've been best friend. Since we were eight. She was vegan in middle school. She was like, way ahead of the curve. And we live in rural Minnesota in the US. Like, it's not like it was a very populated city or anything. So she was way ahead of the curve. And I think back to you know, I grew up hunting and fishing and eating meat and everything else. And I think about how she just stayed my best friend. And if I had questions she would answer and she never made me feel bad. And once I was in that phase of just being angry at everyone who wouldn't listen to me, I do remember that this woman was just like, a kind, sweet soul. And let me figure it out. In my own time, I'm like, okay, that's what I have to do.

Shane Campbell

Ya know, cuz my girlfriend was vegetarian. When we went vegan, she went vegetarian. And she was to transition, they think she's vegan or two years of things. So that was kind of two years when I was a bit like, everyone can be vegan, and she was vegetarian. Now, I still kind of had that kind of you that. I just think if you push someone without them seeing us, you know, you have to make that connection if you don't make that connection. That's why there's so many people like celebrities, etc. And people going vegan, and they get a huge platform, and then they're not vegan anymore. Like, I think the connection once you make that connection, and I say a lot of people go when they say they were vegan or not, they weren't vegan if they're gone back, like wearing leather, don't assume that because for me, just once you make that connection, it's just you can't go back.

Carly Puch

Yeah, that's interesting.

Shane Campbell

Like I do understand that certain people, you know, like certain people, like we stayed, you know, have less privilege and that some obviously excluding that, but um, like, I think once you go on, you have the means to be vegan. I don't see you going back.

Carly Puch

So yeah, and that's so interesting, too, is that there have been a few celebrities or people that have a lot of you know, social capital or in the spotlight that go vegan and talk about it and then are suddenly not vegan. And people are in absolute uproar on the internet, like the internet blows up when celebrities change their mind on their diets. And it's always so fascinating because even with food, people are still put on a pedestal of who to follow and it's like, well, you shouldn't have been getting your advice from the celebrity who's been vegan for a year follow the like, million vegan doctors that are on Instagram.

Shane Campbell

Yet 100% I think that's quite um, that's just a very millennial thing, isn't it?

Carly Puch

Yes, I am. Wondering if you have any good like conversion stories or if you have gotten anyone in your life to edge towards veganism or anything like that you talk about About your your girlfriend.

Shane Campbell

And yes, so she was. Yeah, I think she just she was kind of she would we we would have been together the whole time. So she was eating like probably a percent v i think the only time she did it was when she was out and she was back like them when you could only get cheese pizza or whatever, she got a cheese pizza board. And in regards to conversions, I have a couple of friends that went vegetarian. My sister went vegan, she was vegetarian for 13 years since she was 13. So I'm happy. She's vegetarian. So she went, she went vegan after I was kind of like, check out his documentaries. She watched him dr. oz and she's like, oh my god. So she went vegan. He has been like quite a few messages on on Instagram. And people have messaged me just say, people, I was in school and just say, Look, I'm not only me anymore, and you know, I don't want to look for a replacement for existence. So I get a lot of that. And which is good to see. And, of course, I'd have to you have to wait and see if money went or not.

Carly Puch

I know I'm excited. I'm so your Instagram has quite a following now. It's vegan country boy, right? Yeah. So where did that kind of start and come from? Did you expect that?

Shane Campbell

And no, to be honest, I started as a journal, I just wanted to kind of track my food. I was like, right, I'll track my food. And then I land. I look back, you know, just say if it comes in two months time, like I don't know what to eat, I'd scroll back through my timeline and be like, Oh, I had this couple months ago that that was nice, which is kind of like that keep track. And then yeah, just posting recipes. And then I just started looking more into just Amorites and all that and kind of just, you know, just kind of built and builds went open in the fall under that program. I think like, for me, like I've learned so much. Like it's amazing how much you learn from from the say Instagram, if more people like them. Like there's a volunteer and no one's COVID days down to work, like I work five days a week from Monday to Friday. So I'm hoping to get Saturdays working in Animal Sanctuary in Kildare. So, I seen that from a couple of people I was following on Instagram, they were just stuff they were doing. This is unbelievable. Like, the work you're doing for animals. And just there's so many good accounts out there. But yeah, my one just literally was just a journal. And then it just got some followers and stuff. And I think I just kept doing the thing and just kept posting or whatever. But

Carly Puch

so it wasn't even about activism.

Shane Campbell

No, no, of course, it was a journal. And then I was kind of like, I think once I first started, I was kind of a bit of a first started I was kind of like I'm vegan, someone asked for the vegan to be lasting. It's a kind of thing it was ordered on the restaurant, I kind of avoid the situation. It's kind of like a forced I watch all the stuff. And then it was a little bit kind of a little bit. Not scared. But like when people asked me about, like, Oh, yeah, each loan, which I don't use that term anymore in regards to each their own, because, like, not that it's a bad term like but in regards to each their own, you're leaving out, you know, leaving out, you're leaving out the victim. So I don't use that term, but I would have when I first started as kind of like, a safe thing. When it first started two years I probably went from I went from, you know, on just trying it you know, and just been really polite about it to like being more angry vegan. And I think I'm reversing back for like a lever like straight off the bat. Like I'm not like your stereotypical vegan where we sit down at a table, I put my hand and go, I'm vegan. But someone asked me like, Well, you know, I will tell them I am vegan. And like, I'd be like, are you sure you want to hear this? Because I didn't want to tell you how it is basically. And I said how it is but it started were kind of sugar coated because I was a little bit kind of it was kind of new souls like just a little bit shy around I suppose.

Carly Puch

Have you heard of are you familiar with Claire man, the vegan psychologist from Australia?

Shane Campbell

I don't think I have.

Carly Puch

Give her a follow and I interviewed her on the podcast as well a couple months ago. She I found her randomly in the beginning, I believe of my vegan journey because I was struggling with how to talk to people. And I don't even know what I googled, but somehow she came up and she is really interesting and talks about ways to like bring people into the conversation versus calling them out which I think is so important. I've learned a lot from and something she talks about is asking people questions. So they feel like they're in control. Because we all want to feel like that in the conversation, right? So being like, Oh, thanks for asking, could I tell you a little more about why? And then if someone says yes, then it's like, Okay, well, then you can tell them because a lot of times, I think people who are skeptical about veganism or like, don't preach to me or Don't tell me what to do, but like, there's a way to go about it. She's really great. If you want to look her up.

Shane Campbell

No, I definitely will look her up. But I do agree with that, too. You know, I think you can push people further away to, and we all find that out. No, I think there are there's so many different forms of activism. And I think, I think a lot work for you know, I think a lot of the activism works across the board would take you know, sometimes people don't like being criticized and if they feel attacked, to just call the upset like, a lot of things I get on line and stuff like some people come and just just just get angry and say I'm gonna eat twice the animals now and stuff like that. And it's just like....

Carly Puch

You get messages from people that they're going to eat twice the amount of animal products just because you posted about being vegan?

Shane Campbell

Yes, yes. Started on Tick Tock and started on Tick Tock and I wasn't I thought it was who offer Tick Tock so Yeah, I thought so too. And then it was like, right, if this is your it's another it's another and social media I suppose I can kind of post awareness about and legacy I try to keep it like I say I'm 90% positive, would every so often, I suppose a get reach a limit where I kind of boil over and have taken a step back and go back to when you were weren't vegan? What am I get? Like, tick tock is one of the most Oh, my God, like, there's so much here on it. It's like, it's just, it's ridiculous. Yeah, so much anger. I think a lot of it is 1213 year old kids just given absolute truth, to be honest, and was like, I don't want to be honest, get down, which in regards to say, one in every 15 posts, or just, I'd say, take someone have this thing, where to just them put up like the bat, the bat sign in the sky was like anti vegan, and they all come around and like things like that, to be honest, and but other than that, like, you know, there is, like you said, there's a certain way to put across to everyone we're set receives a different?

Carly Puch

Well, it's so interesting, because I think learning about those skills in regards to veganism because it can become such a hot button issue for some people has helped me talking about any other issue I care about as well. Like the ripple effects, because there's a lot of things I want to, you know, talk about and post about that are important to me. And I've definitely in the past come from this, like, if you don't agree, you're an idiot kind of stance, like I've totally, you know, maybe not use those words, but definitely implied. But having to learn through this has made me a better communicator, I think honestly.

Shane Campbell

Yeah, really, really those like you, you do get so much better communicating with people, because you kind of learn after a while, what kind of what takes people and what doesn't? And, like, like you said, asking a question and talent, someone or two different things.

Carly Puch

Yeah, and even in my own circle of people in my life, when I first went vegan, and then something that was really important for me was learning about the brain and health. And the book, the Alzheimer's solution by Dr. And Dr. Their wife and husband duo shares I an amazing book really, really great. And it just like blew my mind. My grandma has Alzheimer's, and I was like, oh, a plant based diet is going to help keep our brains healthy. So I was like, obsessed, telling my parents like, I don't want you to lose your minds. I'm going to need you to eat vegan like yesterday. And of course they were totally put on the defense because I was telling them what to do. And I tried that for a while unsuccessfully. And then once I backed off and stopped talking about it and just kind of, you know, did my thing. My mom hasn't eaten meat except for fish in over a year now. My stepdad makes tons of plant based food. My dad and my stepmom are eating more plant based and it was literally in the timeline as soon as I stopped being an asshole about it is when they were like, hey, like, tell me more about that. And it was my It was such a huge lesson on a billboard like couldn't be bigger like this is how you get people to listen to you currently like,

Shane Campbell